Another Newbie needs help crossing the river!

[Scot Miller]

SO here is my new (new to me) 400.00 wooden drift boat. Very excited to start the resto processes.

I have removed the rear floorboards and the rowers seat.

having so difficulty getting some of the old screws out. the extractors working well until a head breaks off. I guess I will just epoxy those screws in and move a new screw just off the old broken one? 

I also bought a gallon of Jasco adhesive stripper that seems to work well and have a couple of pieces to sand in the AM.

Any advice about this process would be greatly apreciated. this is my first go around and I hope to have a pretty/solid boat next summer. I am especially in need of bottom resto advice. it looks like it has black gunk on the botttom now (coat it?)

at any rate here are some pics.

[Rick Newman]

Sorta Solid can be repaired. That's a great name for your boat by the way. Cutting out the old plywood and doing a lap scarf would allow you to patch in a new piece. AJ has a series of pictures on this technique. Check it out.

Rick N

[Scot Miller]

thanks Rick, yes i poked around befor i bought it and its all solid except a foot or so section at the very rear where the plug is. thats sorta solid but i can see alittle play in the plug housing when i manipulate it. That needs glass at the least

pics coming

[Rick Newman]

Sorry, an awl.

Rick N

[Rick Newman]

The weak bottom would be related to rot which can be checked by a awl or ice pick or a narrow bladed screwdriver. Many boats will suffer rot which is actually a bacteria that thrives when a moist condition is allowed to persist in wood. So boats that have had standing water near the frame members, at the stern if the boat was stored with the bow higher than the stern. So not only can the plywood suffer but frame members can to. Both the plywood and the frame members can be replaced or repaired, the time, money or effort conundrum. AJ DeRosa is excellent at doing the repairs and has documented the methods. If you search for AJ it should bring up many posts with both his wisdom and experience being shared.

Rick N

[Scot Miller]

yes I will, thats a great point, i just thought old boat, weak bottom. i will check it out and get some pics in the next few days.

[Rick Newman]

Scott, I am wondering why you need to remove the black "crap"? It could be graphite and epoxy or Gluv-It another protective material. Is there damage to the bottom you are trying to repair? Are there loose screws? If there is no damage you could be spending time and effort to remove something you may end up replacing. Can you tilt the boat up and take a picture of the bottom?

Rick N

[Scot Miller]

Thanks alot AJ I was going to simple fiberglass over it. i guess the only thing I can mention is that I am no carpenter. sanding scaping fiberglassing im all comfotable with but if I have to produce a tapered lond cap that has exact dimentions I am probably going to fail. we will see when we get the boat upside down and try to get the heavy black goo off the bottom as to how agressive I am going to be with the chine and cap. dont get me wrong, I want to do it right but if I dont have the ability then I would be foolish to start somthing I cant finish... 

[AJ DeRosa]

Scott you have a very nice boat to restore and most of the advice you have recieved is right on.  With all due respect to Richard Elder,  who has forgotten more about boat building than most of us will ever know,  I must make this post.  Richard builds beautiful stitch and glue boats.  His advice about running multiple layers of cloth over the chine is the stitch and glue way to reinforce this very exposed area.  This is NOT the way to deal with the chine area in a frame built boat.  I am goint to harp on this because it is very common for the two different building methods, stitch and glue vs traditional frame, to become blurred by well meaning advice.  Whats good and necessary for one method is often totally inappropriate for another.  This is very much the case when dealing with the chine area.  Stich and glue strengthens the chine joint with a generous fillet of thickened epoxy on the inside and multiple layers off tape/epoxy wrapped over the chine joint on the outside.  Their is no protective chine cap in stitch and glue construction.

Your frame built boat has an inner chine log and an outer chine batten or cap.  This combination is the backbone of the boat.  They are both very important as they work together to protect the area that will suffer massive hits.  The chine cap is a replacable sacraficial piece.  Properly installed and bedded with a polysulfide compound it is easily replaced.  Wrapping fiberglass over the chine joint and not replacing the chine cap is probably the most common mistake that newbies can make.   

Richards suggestion that you dig out any rot in the chine area and fill with epoxy and cabasol is right on.  Once you are happy with the rot repair dry fit the new chine cap with screws every 6 inches.  Now it's time to butter up the inside of the new chine cap with a polysulfide compound like 3M 101 and screw it on.  Don't use a polyurethane marine adhesive like 3m5200 for this application as it is near impossible to remove down the road when you want to replace the cap. Tighten screws only till you see the goo begin to ooze out.  The goo will waterproof the holes.  Screws in the chine do not create leaks.  Poorly bedded chine caps can cause leakes.  Don't skimp on the goo in this application and don't over tighten the screws to the point of forcing the goo out of the joint.

Richard, I hope you understand that my intent is to keep the traditional frame built drift boat alive and built and repaired in the traditional ways.  I have several historical boats that are 60 years old that have been restored in this way and are still on the river.

[Rick Newman]

Scott, sure looks like a Tatman boat. The reasons I think so are the seat details, the piece between the gunwales at the stern and just the overall look. I used to sell the Sharkgrip tools, I have three of what I call a kitten's paw tool. They are great and when sharpened can do multiple jobs, scraping, cutting silicon bronze nails put in the wrong place and more.  Good luck on your project.

Rick Newman

[Richard Elder]

Hi Scott,

Mark pretty much nailed it!  Good choice to oil the interior given the wood you have.  You can always replace bits and pieces next winter after the trout have all gone to bed and the steelhead given up.  But do epoxy the outside just to hold everything together and give it another 20 years of service.   If you have a lot of rot under the outer chine logs when you take them off you might want to just wrap them up 2" on the sides with extra glass after digging out the rot-- like multiple layers of 4-6" tape. Don't use low density fillers if you are trying to replace rot-- fill your epoxy with cab-o-sil.  Then when you do your final coats of epoxy with black graphite filler you can cover it and make it pretty- and not have any more screws to let in water in that area.

If you are using an open material like roving, don't pre-coat the bottom wood.  The epoxy will go right through it and it is easier to move the material around and keep it straight if it isn't sitting over tacky resin.   And roving is cheap.  What we are trying to accomplish is to add strength but mass as well for all the future abrasion.   Use slow hardner, and follow the heavy layer with a 6-8 oz cloth to smooth things out.  I like to do it at the same time by following about 2' behind the first heavy layer.  Using multiple layers of cloth instead just multiplies the amount of work if the goal is something like 24-30 oz of glass total.

re Kevlar on a wood boat.  I've used it, but frankly just for advertising purposes. It is twice as strong in tension and lighter weight. And of course impossible to sand. Just use more glass for a better overall product.   The one place where it might make sense is for an inner skin on a Grand Canyon boat built with CoreCell where you were going for the ultimate in impact resistance.

By the way, yours is a fir boat as were most of its vintage.

Have fun!

Richard